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viewing the Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City? topic in the Local News, Politics & Issues
Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Chris Gamrath, 1/28/2012 9:00:13 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Tom Masa, 1/28/2012 9:45:49 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, David Schott, 1/28/2012 10:00:29 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Kacey, 1/28/2012 10:08:40 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Amorette Allison, 1/28/2012 10:18:35 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Fracn, 1/28/2012 10:35:50 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Bob Netherton II, 1/28/2012 11:23:34 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, tax payer, 1/28/2012 2:42:27 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, howdy, 1/28/2012 3:03:16 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Bob Netherton II, 1/28/2012 3:10:31 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, tax payer, 1/28/2012 4:06:42 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, howdy, 1/28/2012 4:28:56 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Buck Showalter, 1/28/2012 6:17:17 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Steve Allison, 1/28/2012 10:10:22 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Wendy Wilson, 1/28/2012 10:25:53 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, prb, 1/29/2012 6:50:08 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, K.Duffy, 1/29/2012 7:20:41 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Levi Forman, 1/29/2012 7:53:09 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Buck Showalter, 1/29/2012 9:45:49 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, howdy, 1/29/2012 10:10:57 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Steve Allison, 1/29/2012 10:48:28 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Bob Wildrick, 1/29/2012 1:08:04 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Levi Forman, 1/29/2012 1:29:33 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, David Schott, 1/29/2012 1:33:30 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Bob Wildrick, 1/29/2012 2:34:35 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/29/2012 3:40:06 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/29/2012 3:42:43 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, howdy, 1/29/2012 3:53:10 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/29/2012 5:37:11 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, howdy, 1/29/2012 6:05:03 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Cory Cutting, 1/29/2012 7:01:46 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Amorette Allison, 1/29/2012 9:23:38 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Cindy, 1/30/2012 9:44:05 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/30/2012 11:46:05 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Chris Gamrath, 1/30/2012 12:08:42 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/30/2012 12:26:03 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Cory Cutting, 1/30/2012 1:22:55 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Jeri Dalbec, 1/30/2012 1:45:20 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Steve Allison, 1/30/2012 1:54:41 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Mathew Schmitz, 1/30/2012 2:04:02 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Bridgier, 1/30/2012 2:35:54 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, cj sampsel, 1/30/2012 3:01:19 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/30/2012 3:09:59 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/30/2012 3:11:58 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Jeri Dalbec, 1/30/2012 3:40:49 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Cory Cutting, 1/30/2012 6:15:43 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Jeri Dalbec, 1/30/2012 7:18:24 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Steve Allison, 1/30/2012 8:41:53 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/30/2012 9:21:06 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Les Scanlan, 1/30/2012 10:41:17 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 1/30/2012 11:15:43 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, cori schock, 1/31/2012 8:01:37 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Bridgier, 1/31/2012 9:28:44 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Les Scanlan, 1/31/2012 5:14:07 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, AshleyDawn, 2/1/2012 1:04:01 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Jimmie, 2/1/2012 7:28:23 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, MC local, 2/1/2012 9:55:02 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Richard Bonine, Jr., 2/2/2012 7:17:36 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, MC local, 2/3/2012 12:10:55 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, MC local, 2/3/2012 12:15:21 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Levi Forman, 2/3/2012 8:05:58 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Amorette F. Allison, 2/3/2012 10:16:37 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Jeri Dalbec, 2/3/2012 10:57:47 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Exalted Buckaroo, 2/7/2012 9:51:39 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Amorette F. Allison, 2/7/2012 10:02:48 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Les Scanlan, 2/7/2012 4:46:24 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, MC local, 2/18/2012 1:43:31 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Amorette Allison, 2/18/2012 9:49:47 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, MC local, 2/18/2012 10:42:06 PM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Levi Forman, 2/19/2012 7:03:25 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Tom Masa, 2/19/2012 9:06:02 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Richard Bonine, Jr., 2/19/2012 10:46:16 AM
RE: Afraid of oil/gas boom in Miles City?, Cory Cutting, 2/19/2012 2:32:52 PM
|I'm not looking to start some heated "left side" vs. "right side" debate on this, but I would like to try and understand people's thinking as to why you're so aftaid of the oil/gas boom hitting the Miles City area?
Having grown up around the area for the first 20+ years of my life, all I ever heard about when we traveled out of town for class field trips to towns like Baker and Colstrip were how lucky they were to have so much money for their school districts and towns. This money was courtesy of booms based off of products that have the potential (although be it a small one) to have harmful effects on the enviroment. Like any economic boom, there's always the potential for a crash and hard times to follow. Hasn't the development of our entire country been based off of that theory? Shouldn't Miles City be given the chance to thrive and improve itself based on those same oppurtunities?
I am fully aware of the supposed negative effects of bringing oil and gas into a region as I've soent the past 8 years living in such a region in Western Colorado. The influx of people was definatly a challenge but was soon overcome with the influx of monies brought in to areas such as housing, city improvements, school districs, and commercial businesses. Are these not 4 major areas in Miles City that most defintaly need improving?
Miles City itself came into existance based on the cattle industry and if you were to believe everything that every scientist tells us to be fact, shouldn't we have had a giant greenhouse bubble over us from all those cows' methane laced burps?? I realize that's a bit of a stretch but like I said, with every boom there has be some side effects, so are we really willing to bypass an oppurtunity to improve based on our chicken-little fears of what COULD happen?
|Take a drive over to Watford City, Williston and Stanley ND and see what it is like. I live in Minot and there was no housing available and then we flooded and lost 4000 homes. All of western ND is booming and it is good or bad. If you wonder what it is like, take a day and drive over and enjoy the traffic. Although I don't think MC will have as much oil & gas activity as western ND. Chris, I see you are in CO so it would be more than a days drive. But if you decided to do so, you would need to get a motel reservation at least 6 months before.
|My neighbors are originally from Sidney. She had her high school class reunion last summer. It was held in Billings because there are no motel rooms available in Sidney and "the town has changed so much no one really cares to go back." Nice.
|Don't assume Miles City will be raking in the dough for all sorts of things for the city because of the oil boom. Colstrip has what they have because the plant is IN Colstrip. The nice school and other ammenities came from the tax income.
I know lots of people in the Sidney area who have had to change their way of life due to the massive numbers of total strangers who are around day and night. Housing prices have skyrocketed. Elderly renters have LOST their homes due to the demand for housing. Owners have jumped the rent so high that the elderly could no longer afford to stay in their homes that they had rented for years and years in most cases. People who have always called Sidney home can no longer afford to live there. Rentals are already tight in Miles City. Do you want people thrown out on the streets literally so landlords can make a killing on strangers?
The question should be what will Miles City get out of it....then subtract everything it will cost Miles City. See if it comes out on the positive side or the negative side. Will the city have to hire more police officers? Will we need to increase our water supply system to provide water for new hotels or camping facilities?
|Miles City came into existence because of Fort Keogh. Cattle came later, after sheep and bison hunting. Horses were also HUGE here until the internal combustion engine. Always start from a basis of facts when making claims, otherwise you sound like an idiot.
|Everybody wants economic developmnet in Miles City but they are scared of change. People should look around. There are alot of people born and raised in MC that wotk in the oil and gas business.Does that make them bad people because they work in the oil and gas business?? How about Sanjel? Is everybody that works there bad people? Sanjel has brought more jobs and more money to MC than anything else in the past 10 years! Change is gonna happen weather you like it or not! If your community isn't growing it's dieing! People need to quit comparing MC to Williston or Watford City because MC will never be like either of them.
|The key word is "boom". Booms don't last.
|Amorrette..does it make you feel good to give rude comments?
|Amorettes details are correct...Check your history... Perhaps she is tired of always having to correct someones version of history concerning the Miles City area...
|"Miles City itself came into existance based on the cattle industry and if you were to believe everything that every scientist tells us to be fact, shouldn't we have had a giant greenhouse bubble over us from all those cows' methane laced burps?? "
The talk of an idiot.
|Howdy..she can correct the facts without the idiot comment!
|Tax Payer, as I remember correctly, you have had some pretty rude comments in your past postings... "judge not lest ye be judged"....
|Give ND another five years and make a decision. Diving in head first and being afraid aren't the same thing.
|Amorette did not call him an idiot, she said it made him sound like an idiot. That was her way of pointing out that if the first facts in one's (any ones) statement is wrong, it detracts from the rest of your statements and arguments. If one takes the time to get basic facts right, it adds weight or authority to your points. The trouble with typing is no one hears your tone or sees your face and hand gestures, making it easy to miss intensions.
I think that whenever you come to Amorettte's rescue you should also post a full disclosure.
|The people of M.C. have said in the past years(4,since I moved back)that the town is dying and the "youth" have to move away for good jobs.Well here is our chance to get this town living again.When the oil fields get here,if people want to start a bussiness in this town, let them. We need some new stores and resturants to compete with the ones we have now.We need the taxes from the new bussiness to help fix the few things that need fixing.If we don't welcome this change--it will go elsewhere like everything else has--
|Plus..we just MIGHT get a shoe store?
The key word is "boom". Booms don't last.
The construction part is a boom. The oil wells tend to last a while don't they?
|Is that good or bad?
|IMO, a bit of both...Environmental wise, very bad IMO...
|As far as I know, the town is hoping for some of the oil money to come to town. That is why they have set up a commission to help plan and prepare for it. What people are afraid of is a sudden influx is temporary people that have no stack in the town's future and tend to leave destruction in the wake of passing through. If one ignores these facts and blindly welcomes the money, you tend to be left with more damage then benefit. worrying about the bad effects and planning for them ahead is how a town survives a boom. Hiding your head in the sand is the best way to destroy a town's future.
|Some of you may remember when another change happened to Miles City and Custer County back in 1953-54. The US Air Force came to town and how many wanted the radar base? Rents went up, some of our black NCO's were only shown stuff that caused the commander, Col. Bill Steele to put MC off limits until such time as the mayor and city fathers got their heads out of where they were and started to treat these men with respect. Strangers came to town and yes some were not what you would call desirable but we brought a lot of money to the town. I came there in 1957 and found that it wasn't much different than my home town in PA. There was a JC Penneys, Montgomery Wards, Coast to Coast, and a great place to eat called the Crossroads? What do you have now? WalMart and nothing that can compare with the Crossroads. Wake up!!!
Hiding your head in the sand is the best way to destroy a town's future.
Yes. Also, some in this thread seem to think that Miles City will decide whether it comes or not. It's not like the city council or the county commissioners can tell the oil companies that they can't drill on federal, state, or private land in the Miles City area. If the rumors are true then it will come whether people in Miles City want it or not. Of course I have no idea whether they are or not.
|Bob, any estimate as to how many people the radar base brought to town? According to Wikipedia Miles City's population went from 9,243 in 1950 to 9,665 in 1960. I don't think that's the kind of "boom" Miles City is afraid of.
Probably at any given time there were 100-125 airmen, NCO's and Officers and maybe 50-75 wives. There were also civilian employees at the base. One I remember was Al Towlerton (Spelling may be wrong) who was the plumber.
Miles City is like any other town that has had or may experience rapid growth, fear of the change. What is needed is leaders who will guide the industry that may come as well as the cities residents in what to expect. Its called communication and that didn't happen in 54 until Col. Steele put Miles City off limits to the single airmen and told the married folks not to buy anything including groceries which he sent a truck to Malmstrom AFB in Great Falls for. I met him several years later when he told me about these things.
|Amorette is the exception apparently when it comes to posting information that isn't fully credible. No one else can do it without her immediately pointing it out and correcting them, but when she does it, no one should take notice. They do anyway, though.
|BTW, Howdy, you really need to get a mind of your own. Everything you say just sounds like you are in about 8th grade and desperate for acceptance and friends.
|If you knew how incredibly stupid you sound with your last remark, you would be embarrassed...Anyone that knows me, knows that I am the antithesis of what you describe including my age...
|In that case, that makes the fact that the things you say make you sound like you are, more embarrassing for you, not me.
|Long ago, I decided to not converse with trash...that still stands, so I will say goodbye and good riddance...P.S. My definition of trash is those who post to be argumentative and mean to others...their hurtfulness to others is nothing but trashy and disgusting behavior...You are erased
[This message has been edited by howdy (1/29/2012)]
|I think that MC has always wanted the growth without the issues that come with that growth. New people come with the territory. Yes, some cause problems, require more services, and spur quick growth. However, no town/city/community ever grew and got better without all of that. The key is to make the community ready for the growth. That takes foresight and intelligent decision making.
My fear is that the leaders will not make the right decisions and move forward with sound thought and decision making. I believe that city leaders have the brains individually to get good things done, but can they work as a collective whole to accomplish the task?
It will soon be too late to "work through the issues" toward the relationships needed to make the right moves for the city/county. The leaders must just get it done and make it happen.
I also believe in the need to trust the younger generation. A 55 to 65 year old city leader is not making decisions for them. It is for the 0-25 year olds who are the future of the city. People must want to come back and make Miles a great place.
I am very excited about all of this for the city, yet there is a runble in my gut over the fear of it going all wrong.
|The biggest problem with sudden growth (and we are already well into it. Try to find a place to live.) is that the money to pay for it takes several years to filter into the system, long after the stress has already been in place.
When the Milwaukee arrived in 1907, the town boomed, but the big building booms in schools, City Hall, etc. took place starting after 1910. Had to wait for the money to catch up to the growth.
We will need more cops, more teachers, more everything several years before the increased tax dollars start to accrue.
|Cory - ++++++1 to you! Great post!
|I completely agree, Cory! Refreshing take!
|Amorette, first of all thankyou for correcting my statement though I would have hoped that we could have done it in a little more "pleasant" way as I'm farily certain I've never used any sort of condesending language in your direction. Based on historical accuracy I have no doubt you're correct in how Miles City came to be. My point of referene was based more towards a society's intepretation of how Miles City came into being based more on television, film, and generalized literature which dipicts Miles City as a "cow town". Hense the expression.
Tom M. I appreciate the response and would love to take a drive through the area and visit with friends and family there, but like I mentioned I'm living in an area that has already been through not 1 but 2 booms in the last 40 years and can see firsthand right where I'm at. Grand Junction had it's first in the 70's and while it took a few years to catch up to the development, thrived for the better part of the decade. With every boom comes a bust and in 1982, GJ experienced it's first. (based on what I've been told by many people who have lived here all their lives so again please forgive whatever minor historical wrong doings that might be found with this statement though I've never heard anyone dispute 1982) The area struggled, housing costs went from all time highs to all time lows, jobs were lost, businesses closed their doors, families were forced to move etc. Grand Junction while down, was not out. The local economics slowly took over again, and while times were hard, the town kept on. Prices stabalized, housing markets came back around to the national average, and jobs returned in local markets. This same cycle was repeated again starting in the late '90's and early 2000's. While our "bust" now is based more on the national economy and state legislature not wanting to push economic means for more enviromentaly friendly means, again we're in the downturn of city and countywide economic developement. Towns such as Parachute, Rifle, Silt, and New Castle have been hardest hit by this. Once again though, given time the outsourced economics of the oil and gas gradually fade away and local economy takes it place.
Bob N. again I appreciate your response in helping support fellow posters but as I mentioned above, I've been nothing but nice to most all on here (aside from a few handfuls of offhand comments made to Mr. Reed which are more in fun then anything else to get a rise out of him, which I believe we've come to an understanding on (cheese rules!))
I agree 100% that booms don't last. They do however, as mentioned by Bob W., bring benefits to an area that's ready to deal with them based on city and county leadership. To me, that's the shakiest part of this entire process as it seems that there has been little to no cooperation between the city and county planning boards for several years now. Most of these disagreements have had far less impact on the area with issues such as ambulance/fire service, zoning commisions, flood plains, etc etc. While those issues are important and need to be solved, they by far under value the significance of the aforementioned boom.
Levi, Cory, and Steve I too think the obvious is here whether people are willing to accept it or not and that the oil and gas industry WILL be in our area no matter what. We all have the choice to support it or to not, but it will be there. There will be boosts to local ocntractors in construction and the like. Housing will be in short supply as Kacey mentioned, and some people will be hurt by this. There's no easy solution to this that I'm aware of, other then to wait for everything else to catch up. It will take time and sacrifices will have to be made by all in order for it to happen but it will. For those who want to see Miles City as a retirement community and not one of change and development for a possible brighter future, my question to you is, "What economic force will keep Miles City driving forward instead of being stuck where we are and slowly fading away if not for the oil and gas?"
|Chris, I agree with you. This is a much more pressing issue, imo, than new water mains. Miles City needs to commit to whatever it is that we are and/or want to be. If we are going to be a town full of casinos, then lets commit to that and take that as far as we can. Do what we need to marketing-wise to use it to our advantage. If we don't want to be a town full of casinos, hotels, and resources just to accomodate the people that come here just stopping through or for work, yet has nothing valuable to offer the people that actually live here, then there needs to be some serious changes made to our city and county government, as well as business owners and potential investors. People need to take a look around sometimes and notice the number of positive things that have just disappeared from Miles City in the last few years. All of the things that have appeared, aren't for any of us. That's really sad, imo.
|If I was a "new" Mayor in a small town expecting a boom, I would set up a committee that would study and create ideas around areas of growth. The committee would be charged with developing strategies for growth in each area, and how that growth will be controlled, developed, and planned.
I would set the areas like bigger cities do in neighborhoods. The industrial site/western exit corridor; Valley Drive East; Downtown; Haynes Avenue; and Haynes Avenue south of I-94.
Suggestions/ideas would then be forwarded to the city/county planning board(s) for consideration and implementation.
The committee should be made up of a diverse group of people, including: try to limit the age of members to 45 or younger; Miles City business owners from each area of study; a representative from the Chamber; student(s) from MCC; student(s) from the high school; the local historian (even though she doesn't fall into the age group, studying history is a great way to learn and plan. Plus, incorporating historical features into planning is a good way to maintain the small town feel); people that have lived in other places and experienced other cities (this is a great way to incorporate the "neat" things one sees when visiting other communities).
I originally had city council and commission members in the mix, but I think what this committee needs is fresh ideas without the cloud of "big brother" watching. The committee should just throw out ideas, come up with things they would like to see, and ideas of phases of development, and then forward those to the planning board(s).
A group such as this can make any suggestion that makes sense, and this work can be started without settling the city/county planning board problems. The work needs to move forward, even if the planning board problem isn't solved immediately.
Finally, it will take radical changes to city codes that either have not been considered or people thought impossible to pass. Ideas like no business signs over 5 feet tall, a certain amount of grass and so many trees for every acre of land a business sits on, and meeting these requirements for existing businesses after a certain number of years.
Growth is painful, but if done right, can be beautiful and develop an amazing city. The money is coming, the businesses are coming, but preparing for it must be done with insight, forethought, skill, and the guts to make some hard decisions and ruffle a few feathers. This is not our Grandfather's Miles City!
|Cory, I have attended two of the town meetings in regard to this issue and I don't believe that anyone younger than 45 was in attendance. Everyone was invited and those who were interested showed up! Other than your age limit, I thought your ideas were great.
|New water mains are part of the preparing for future growth. They are collapsing under current use and if they are expanded for new growth, they will stop functioning all together. Building an infrastructure for future growth is one of the first and biggest things that need to be dealt with.
|I agree with Jeri. The people with the money to make stuff happen are generally gonna be over 45, and we need to learn from their experience. And take advantage of their wealth and willingness to make more money. Who doesn't want more money? By eliminating them from the conversation, we have effectively limited the pool of candidates that may be willing to invest in some way to help the process along. And, not to sound like I am pickin on ya, but that part of your statement is a little offensive to those of us with some time under our belts. Our ideas are not worth even listening too? A good idea is a good idea, whether it came from a 25 year old, or a 75 year old person. And the 75 year old is more likely to have the resources to get it done. Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. We need to listen to those with more history in the rear view window than ourselves, in order to avoid the mistakes of the past.
[This message has been edited by Mathew Schmitz (1/30/2012)]
|I think Cory's trying to avoid the "back in my day" and "get off my lawn" attitudes that sometimes seem to be endemic in Miles City's governance.
|This attitude is not endemic of Miles City but universal including
government cuts. We pretty much all agree they,re needed but not
on my patch of turf.
|Steve, I am more knowledgeable about the public utility problems in Miles City than you might think. The problems we are facing are caused by generations of neglect, and even with all the money in the world available to the city employees faced with this issue, it is something that is going to take years to correct. We simply don't have the work force or the seasonal advantages that we could. Even with new mains, the use of private and public water lines will again be damaged and destroyed faster than you can imagine unless the people using them stop abusing them and treating them like a landfill for whatever they can fit down there. If people just paid more care and attention to their own use of the water lines they have access to on a daily basis, a huge amount of problems that the City Public Utility employees face every day would be instantly resolved.
|Then they would have the time to start improving the condition of the mains themselves. For now, a large part of their job is spent cleaning up other people's messes.
|I would think that input like this would be welcome at the meetings regarding the projected "boom". Some recent headlines from North Dakota indicate that it may have happened too fast to have given it the thought that is needed. "Turning Wastewater from oil Wells into an Asset" where a couple of people will experiment by dumping it on dirt roads in Dunn County to keep the level of dust down. Then.."Oilfield wastewater filters rejected at landfills for radioactivity", where their level of radiation sets off the landfill's Geiger counter so they cannot accept them. Then: "Officials: Progress made to ease North Dakota gas flaring where there is an excessive about of natural gas that is torched and wasted daily by the drillers.
A need for a lot of preparation it sounds like and, it is so good that you all are getting your thoughts and knowledge "out there". Richard Bonine addressed the need for being prepared in a very good article.
|Jer, you're one of my favorite experienced people! I didn't mean to offend (even though I knew that statement would), but Bridger got my point exactly. The history of MC has always been a fear of change and new.
I know that I have said this before, but my dad used to tell a story about when he was on the council in the 50's, the "international" airport (in Billings) was proposed for MC. MC is almost exactly 1/2 way between Seattle and Minneapolis. Someone thought MC would be a great place for a big airport. But it was voted down. Now, I have never heard that story verified, but it is the kind of thinking that has always held MC back.
And while I don't discount the value of the experienced generation with knowledge and cash, often the younger generations are overlooked for being "young" and "inexperienced". Well, I did some pretty good community focused things in my young years in MC, and saw several ideas I personally came up with become successful community events. The younger generation must be brought into the fold. They have to see the value of the area and believe it is developing into what THEY want. That makes people stay. They must be invested.
That's why I say younger generations only. Let those kids do what they want! LOL. Older generations tend to not be up on new ideas and the latest craze. Who needs a skateboard park? I'm sure the Mayor doesn't have a skateboard, but I bet his grandson does... and I know his son did. Hoola Hoop park? Not so much. But for someone who went to high school in 1954, probably a great idea!
|Hi Cory...Believe me, I am not offended. I respect all opinions and feel animosity toward none. You might be surprised at the number of people that do feel progressive and are a tad older:-) Maybe the reason that young people do not attend some of the meetings is a feeling of alienation??? Not sure. Anyhow...all input is important.
It is fun to read the various "take" on different subjects. Interesting story about a proposed airport that did not make it.
|AshleyDawn, you are right about what caused a lot of the deterioration of the water and sewer lines, but you still can not hook a lot of new development up to these lines until they are replaced. That is why they have a city grant writer working on getting as many grants as posable to hire the job done by bringing in contractors. If we wait for the boom to hit, we are all in trouble. Things have to be done a step at a time. I don't know about you, but I can not afford to pay huge SIDs to get it done all at once.
|Even if we had the money in capital already to do that though Steve, (and we just might ) the City Council doesn't want to spend money. It's the same story ever year on the City budget....so the City gets a very minimal amount of money allotted to them to do these projects. Next summer will be about 10 city blocks total getting water lines replaced. They do as much as they can with the amount of money they are allowed to use for the job, and usually hire the lowest bidder to do it. That system isn't working, as I'm sure you remember the utter tradgedy that occured on Dickinson this summer because the City had to hire the lowest bidder to do a very large job with hardly any money. After over a month of the contractor working on the job, the devastating news: the contractor had no idea what they were doing, used the wrong fittings and pieces that wasn't compatible with the existing main structure or even manufactured for the purpose they were using it for and guess what- whole job was a bust and had to be completely redone. I don't even want to know how much money that cost the City. If the City Council just stopped being penny pinching, money grubbing, tight wads things could get done the right way the first time, and despite the initial sticker shock, would save Miles City a large amount of money in the long run. That's awesome about the grants, maybe if we get those City Council won't have any choice but to spend the money for the purpose it was intended. If we don't get the grants, they won't spend even the money we do have. Either way it's going to take a long time, probably fifteen years, to get it all done. That's without a single bump in the road at all.
|As a rule,large public works contracts have several funding sources such as USDA, Rural Development, TSEP, CTEP, SRF, etc. with the city or town matching a percentage of total contract. State and federal law require the selection of the lowest qualified bidder, and yes the low bidder has to prove his qualifications before being awarded the contract. also with public funded projects the contractor puts up a 100% payment and performance bond so if a portion or all of the work does not meet spec the repair or replacement work is not paid for by the city or town. Just a little information on topic.
|It would be nice if that were how things actually worked.
|It seems as if Miles City is already experiencing some of the benefits of the Bakken boom. I know of a lot of people that are coming to Miles City to shop rather than going to Dickinson or Williston. I also know of at least one local business that goes into other communities to get vehicles that need serviced, bring them back to Miles City and then transport them back. Seems crazy, but it actually makes sense, as the wait time for basic oil changes, etc. is ridiculously long. I don't believe Miles City will be at the heart of a boom, but I do believe we'll start experiencing a lot more truck traffic through town if things heat up north of us. I agree that housing is one of the most critical issues. I have been appalled at the way people have price gouged in these communities. My apartment is $2,000 per month, and I pay it because at least I have a place to live, even though I think it is wrong. It has been devastating for locals, and as mentioned earlier, seniors have been particularly hurt by the greed.....which is exactly what it boils down to.....I would like to think that there is enough decency in Miles City to keep pricing in check, and not displace our own residents, but I suppose there will always be some who will put profit over people. I do think one of the areas that will be the most difficult to control will be the school situation. By December 15th, the Sidney Jr. High had gotten its 57th new student. I think THAT might be a bigger problem than almost anything. I think the key to all of this is to stay informed and get involved. Voice your concerns, offer solutions, and get creative. It could be a good thing if it's done right!
It would be nice if that were how things actually worked.
|That is how things actually work on publicly funded projects. You have mentioned that your husband works for the city. Have him ask Mr. Kelm for a copy of the project specifications, read the 300+ pages paying special attention to the sections titled Instructions to bidders, Measure and Payment, and Liquidated Damages and then you will know for sure how things are done.
|I'm sure he's already seen it. I'm not disputing what you're saying- and it sounds great. Is great, in theory. There are situations, however, where liability is put into question and whether or not there is any truth to that I really don't know, but I do know that compromises are made, in order to avoid costly court battles and the like. I have no idea how often that happens or any specifics on why it does or when it has, specifically. But I know it has, on occasion. But I have no clue what I'm even talking about, I just like to hear myself talk and think I'm smart.
|Just wondering if anyone has noticed that all of the towns that are referred to as having issues from the oil boom happen to have oil wells located near them. Hundreds of them within a 100 mile radius. I cant seem to find a single permit issued for Custer County. ???
|"I cant seem to find a single permit issued for Custer County. ???"
Where have you looked? What kind of "permit" were you looking for or is this all hyperbole?
|http://bogc.dnrc.mt.gov/PDF/AnnualReview/AR_2010.pdf .Pg. 29. 2011 data is not listed yet, but permits are listed on the DNRC site as they are issued, and I have yet to see one there.
|Another usefull resource. Shows the oil and gas producing areas. I dont see much happening in Custer County. http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...ogproducingareas.pdf
|Doesn't that map show currently existing wells? Obviously there's not going to be anything in Custer County on it. And even if it's not in Custer County, those guys aren't going to all live in Jordan.
|I usually don't post long items but this AP article is very relevant:
JORDAN, Mont. (AP) - Talk of a "mini Bakken" beneath this windswept plain has the 350 people of Jordan talking big.
"My daughter thinks we're going to be the next Williston," said Janet Sherer. "I hope not. I'm not ready for that."
Williston, the western North Dakota community at the heart of the Bakken oil boom has become the town to which everyone points when discussing a potential central Montana oil play. The North Dakota community was a quiet farm town until petroleum engineers cracked the combination to oil trapped in a shale formation thousands of feet below. The once seemingly played-out region now rivals Alaska's oil production. Locals fortunate enough to have coveted mineral rights are awash in royalties. The black gold rush is on.
Central Montanans from Lewistown to Jordan also have a seemingly played-out oil field. "The Heath" as it's called in these parts, is a shale formation 250 miles wide from east to west and 150 miles from north to south.
The land that caps the Heath is as empty as it is vast. Here, gravel roads stretch 60 miles or more without crossing asphalt. They must occasionally be shared with range cattle, though rarely with people, and can go from concrete hard on a freezing morning to gumbo soft by afternoon. The latter transformation in winter is so common people plan their travels around the freeze and thaw.
In 1922, oilmen punctured the Heath shale after drilling 1,950 feet and began pumping the first of more than 35 million barrels of oil. The last productive barrels reached the surface in the last months of 1990, according to records, at which point engineers dismissed the Heath shale as a geological turnip, its remaining oil hopelessly trapped in minerals too tight for extraction.
Modern oilmen stumbled onto the Heath not even realizing it was there, according to Darcey Matthews, of Endeavour Corp. A rural ranch couple struck up a conversation with Endeavour team members at a cafe, and tipped them off about the Heath.
Soon after, engineers were studying geological data and landmen were crowding clerk and recorder offices to see who owned what.
Five companies have since bored into Heath shale with vertical wells to collect samples and determine whether the formation is significant enough to be drilled horizontally and cracked, using explosives and extreme hydraulic pressure, to set once-trapped oil seeping into horizontal drill holes.
It's still early in the process, said Matthews, whose company last year launched vertical well projects in four areas between Jordan and Ingomar. The company's next move is establishing horizontal bores this year. At the earliest, Endeavour's sights might begin producing oil in 2013 if all the work up to that point proves worthwhile.
"The Heath oil shale has been the source for the Tyler Sandstone that's been producing oil for a long time," Matthews said. "I don't think there's any doubt there's oil there. I think it's really a question of 'Does the horizontal technology work in that part of Montana.' "
Matthews said she knows of one competitor who moved on to easier plays after Heath shale proved too thin at one horizontal drilling site. Unlike the thick shale formation of the Bakken, the Heath shale is very thin in places.
Ann Priestman compiled a Heath shale report last October for Hart Energy's Unconventional Gas Center. Buried in geological data, she found belts of Heath shale less than 10 feet thick, too thin to be bothered with for some explorers. In other places the shale was a workable 40 feet thick. Drill depths to the shale varied from 2,000 to 5,000 feet. Those are just some of the challenges drillers face before determining whether the Heath can actually be profitable.
As clerk and recorder of Garfield County, Sherer has an understanding of how long developing the Heath shale has taken. It was 18 months ago that landmen poured over the property records at the courthouse in Jordan. They haven't returned, although drilling is under way in the area and production is still at least a year away.
"It's been at least a year since we had a lot of people," Sherer said. "At one time there were 17 of them in our vault. We had them working in our hallway, but it's really slowed down."
In Fergus County, Rana Wichman said when the phone rings at her property records office, it's usually a local calling to see who is buying up all the hotels in Lewistown. The rumor that can't be capped is that oil giant Halliburton has purchased every hotel. No hotels have sold, said Wichman, who as clerk and recorder registers the transfer of title whenever property is sold.
In Petroleum County, there are at least five landmen in the vault of Leslie Skinner's clerk and recorder's office in Winnett. There would probably be more, but Skinner set limits on her landmen after it became apparent that she didn't have room for the six or more who were making the 95-mile drive from Billings daily.
Down the street from Skinner's office, at the Kozy Korner diner, owner Buck Wood rattles off directions to local drilling sites with tour guide proficiency, but says crews don't come to town for the Kozy's famous pies and pancakes.
"The guys drilling, they stay in Roundup," Wood said. "When they do come around, they don't say much."
No one is saying much, because they don't want to tip off competitors, said Jason Edwards of Central Montana Resources. Edwards works out of an office in downtown Billings. His private oil and gas company, based in San Antonio, Texas, holds mineral rights contracts in six central Montana counties and has partnered with some major players including Endeavour.
CMR last year announced a $47 million investor infusion to further its Heath formation. It's currently building a base of operations, including a warehouse and a pipe yard north of Roundup.
"Yes, this area has been looked at and relooked at," said Edwards, who knows that more than 350 wells have been sunk in the Heath shale over the last 80 years. "The particular formation we're looking at, coupled with the new technology that's come along is what makes it intriguing."
Like the other six companies working the area, Central Montana Resources is very much in the exploration phase, Edwards said. But if and when the wells begin producing oil, the exploration will stop and commercialization will start overnight, he said. The construction of the operations center near Roundup combined with a few key hires should tell people Central Montana Resources isn't leaving soon.
"The 'help wanted' sign is out. It's not neon flashing on the side of the building but it's out there," he said. Right now he needs men with two or three years' experience optimizing well production.
"We're just very optimistic about this area," Edwards said. "I'll just leave it at that without going into too much detail."
|Suggested reading: "The Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John
Perkins. It is well worth the time it will take to read it.
|The coolest thing about this photo is not the oil rigs lighting up Williston but the way Fort Peck reflects the moonlight.
|That is pretty cool, I don't think I have ever seen a satellite photo
of the lake that was that explicit.
|All those lights are from oil rigs? Looks like a lot of rigs in Minnesota!
|No. Most of those lights are from towns but the lights specifically around Williston are from oil rigs.
|I guess I'm not sure how to tell the difference. Is there a way?
[This message has been edited by MC local (2/19/2012)]
|Just because of their location. Williston isn't exactly a major metro area but there enough lights to make it look like Los Angeles.
|My guess it would be people smoking meth in the Walmart parking lot in Williston.
|This is better. I knew something was missing.
|I wasn't aware they had power in Havre.