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 Unions, Donator Kelly, 1/10/2012 10:36:29 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/10/2012 8:08:28 PM
 RE: Unions, howdy, 1/10/2012 10:37:33 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/11/2012 7:43:26 AM
 RE: Unions, Steve Craddock, 1/11/2012 9:59:49 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/11/2012 11:44:28 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/13/2012 10:45:51 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/13/2012 11:27:57 AM
 RE: Unions, Levi Forman, 1/13/2012 12:59:42 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/13/2012 2:53:08 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Bridgier, 1/13/2012 3:12:20 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/13/2012 3:17:27 PM
 RE: Unions, Stone, 1/15/2012 11:02:50 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/15/2012 11:07:59 AM
 RE: Unions, Stone, 1/15/2012 11:14:56 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/15/2012 11:39:34 AM
 RE: Unions, howdy, 1/15/2012 11:40:56 AM
 RE: Why I really hate the U.S. Chamber of CommerceDonator David Schott, 1/15/2012 11:48:44 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/15/2012 12:50:15 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/15/2012 12:53:54 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/15/2012 1:14:33 PM
 RE: Unions, howdy, 1/15/2012 1:42:31 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/15/2012 1:54:15 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/15/2012 2:30:44 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/15/2012 2:31:58 PM
 RE: Unions, howdy, 1/15/2012 2:49:12 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/15/2012 2:54:31 PM
 RE: UnionsDonator Kelly, 1/16/2012 10:06:50 AM
 RE: UnionsDonator David Schott, 1/16/2012 10:42:01 AM
 Subject: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Tue Jan 10 10:36:29 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
So we've had it drilled into our heads by the political right that unions are bad. The Supreme Corp. of The United States has ruled that corporations are people.

Unions are aggregates of people. So why then is The US Chamber of Commerce a good thing, when it is a union?
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Tue Jan 10 8:08:28 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Korky,

Still waiting for your comments on this. Please enlighten me!
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: howdy  Posted: Tue Jan 10 10:37:33 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
well put, Kelly, and a great question...OK, Korky, we are all waiting anxiously for your reply LOL...
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Wed Jan 11 7:43:26 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
C'mon Korky-

I know you've been on since this was posted, because you posted to other threads. Please tell us why it is okay for business owners to form a union, but it is not okay for workers to form a union!
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Steve Craddock  Posted: Wed Jan 11 9:59:49 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - NV
Does the Supreme Court finding that corporations are people also apply to unions? In other words, under the SCOTUS' decision, are unions people, too?
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Wed Jan 11 11:44:28 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Yes!

Time for Korky's head to explode.

[This message has been edited by Kelly (1/11/2012)]
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Fri Jan 13 10:45:51 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Since Korky can't seem to respond, I'll open it up to anyone willing to answer.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Fri Jan 13 11:27:57 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
The question seems silly to me. When people talk about "unions" they are specifically referring to "labor unions" or "trade unions". I don't think it's accurate to describe the U.S. Chamber of Commerce as a "union".
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Levi Forman  Posted: Fri Jan 13 12:59:42 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From:
He didn't fall for your troll, don't think anyone else will either, give it up.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Fri Jan 13 2:53:08 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Those who don't think the Chamber of Commerce is a union are deluding themselves.

[This message has been edited by Kelly (1/13/2012)]
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Bridgier  Posted: Fri Jan 13 3:12:20 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - ID
How about "cartel"?
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Fri Jan 13 3:17:27 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
I like Cartel.

Levi-

I also forgot to say, it wasn't a troll. Korky knocked unions in another tread and I wanted him to explain. Asking directly is not trolling.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Stone  Posted: Sun Jan 15 11:02:50 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
I posted this in the wrong post but- Union

: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members' interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions.

Now substitute names.
An organization of farmers formed for the purpose of advancing its members' interest in respects prices of crops, insurance, like political ideologies.

You could use farmers, cattlemen, Angus producers.

God Bless the United States of America. A Union of states bound together and formed for the purpose of advancing the member states interest in respects of commerce and defense.

It seems odd that a nation formed by a Union fights so hard to deprive there fellow citizens from forming a union.

[This message has been edited by Stone (1/15/2012)]
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Sun Jan 15 11:07:59 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
When the "U.S. Chamber of Commerce" goes on strike, let me know.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Stone  Posted: Sun Jan 15 11:14:56 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
When the teachers union receives political money from foreign corporations, (from Muslim and communist countries) and uses that money for domestic political purposes let me know.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Sun Jan 15 11:39:34 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
- The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has created a large presence in the small, oil-rich country of Bahrain. In 2006, the Chamber created an internal fundraising department called the "U.S.-Bahrain Business Council" (USBBC), an organization to help businesses in Bahrain take advantage of the Chamber's "network of government and business relationships in the US and worldwide." As the USBBC's bylaws state, it is not an actual separate entity, rather it is simply an office of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's 501(c)(6) trade association. Many of the USBBC's board members are Bahrainian, including Aluminum Bahrain, Gulf Air, Midal Cables, the Nass Group, Bahrain Maritime & Mercantile International, the Bahrain Petroleum Company (state-owned), Gulf Petrochemical Industries Company, and First Leasing Bank. With each of these foreign board members to the USBBC contributing at least $10,000 annually, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce raises well over $100,000 a year in money from foreign businesses through its operation in Bahrain. Notably, the membership form provided by the USBBC directs applicants to send or wire their money directly to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The membership form also explicitly states that the foreign-owned firms are welcomed.
- Like the Chamber's involvement in Bahrain, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce operates in India through a fundraising department called te "U.S.-India Business Council" (USIBC), which has offices around the world but is headquartered in the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Dozens of Indian businesses, including some of India's largest corporations like the State Bank of India (state-run) and ICICI Bank, are members of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce through the USIBC. Annual membership dues range from $7,500 to $15,000 or more, and the money is given directly into the Chamber's 501(c)(6) bank account. Like the USBBC, the USIBC generates well over $200,000 a year in dues for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce from foreign businesses. On the USIBC website, many of the groups lobbying goals advocate changing American policy to help businesses in India. Under the manufacturing policy goal, USIBC boasts that it "can play a helpful role in guiding U.S. companies to India, while supporting various policy initiatives that will enhance India's reputation as a major manufacturing and investment hub."
- Unlike Business Councils, which are internal fundraising departments of the Chamber geared towards raising foreign money, many foreign "AmChams" operate outside the direct sphere of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce but nonetheless send dues money back to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. For instance, the American Chamber of Commerce in Egypt is a separate entity based in Cairo that raises hundreds of thousands of dollars from both Egyptian firms and American businesses. However, the American Chamber of Commerce in Egypt calls itself "the most active affiliates of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in the" Middle East. Another foreign chamber, like the Abu Dhabi AmCham, which includes American firms and Esnaad, a subsidiary of the state-run Abu Dhabi National Oil Company, claims that it is a a "dues paying member of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and part of the global network of American Chambers of Commerce." In Russia, the relationship between the American Chamber of Commerce there and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce here is opaque. This might be because many of the dues-paying members of the American Chamber of Commerce in Russia are Russian state-run companies, like VTB Bank, and controlled by the Russian government. Asked by ThinkProgress if the Russian Chambers pay dues back to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Ksenia Forsheneva, the membership development manager at the American Chamber of Commerce in Russia, replied, "Unfortunately the information that you require is closed for the public."


from: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...-commerce/?mobile=nc
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: howdy  Posted: Sun Jan 15 11:40:56 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Touche!!
 Subject: RE: Why I really hate the U.S. Chamber of Commerce
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Sun Jan 15 11:48:44 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
Why didn't you just label the thread, "Why I really hate the U.S. Chamber of Commerce"? It would have been more honest and to the point.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Sun Jan 15 12:50:15 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Because that is not how the thread started. In my original post, it was just used as an example.

[This message has been edited by Kelly (1/15/2012)]
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Sun Jan 15 12:53:54 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
Marriage is a union, too. Are you going to bash "Korky" until he admits that he doesn't hate marriage afterall?
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Sun Jan 15 1:14:33 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
The way you are trying to bash me?
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: howdy  Posted: Sun Jan 15 1:42:31 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
US Chamber of Congress...
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/08/us-chamber-of-commerce/

"a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"...

they are nothing more than a powerful lobbying group for the right...nothing more nor less IMO...but if corporations are legally considered people and unions are comprised of people, one could make all sorts of weird analogies...meaning if corporations are considered people then why shouldn't unions be considered people...makes sense to me and thus I agree with Kelly...
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Sun Jan 15 1:54:15 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
Howdy, Kelly said this thread isn't about the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. If you want to talk about the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, start a new thread.

You started the thread, Kelly. What's your point? It appears to me that you're saying to "Korky", "Admit that you like unions because (Kelly assumes) you like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce which loosely fits my definition of union. Admit it Korky, you're wrong to dislike labor unions because you love the U.S. Chamber of Commerce."

That would be like Korky coming on here and demanding that you admit you hate (labor) unions because you hate the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

Do you see how silly you're being?
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Sun Jan 15 2:30:44 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
Howdy, Kelly said this thread isn't about the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.


That is not what I said. I said it didn't start out that way, thus I didn't name the thread the way you'd like it to be. Are you just another conservative who can't read?

You started the thread, Kelly. What's your point? It appears to me that you're saying to "Korky", "Admit that you like unions because (Kelly assumes) you like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce which loosely fits my definition of union. Admit it Korky, you're wrong to dislike labor unions because you love the U.S. Chamber of Commerce."


Nope. The point was why is a union of business owners okay, but a union of workers isn't? Just wanted Korky to explain why since he bashed unions. The Chamber of Commerce was just an example. Here is another to get your head off the COC.http://www.prweb.com/releases/aoboa...eur/prweb8583978.htm

[This message has been edited by Kelly (1/15/2012)]
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Sun Jan 15 2:31:58 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
roll eyes (sarcastic)
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: howdy  Posted: Sun Jan 15 2:49:12 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
David, I really do see Kelly's point of view, but it is very abstract and difficult for someone like me to explain...Wish I had the command of the English language to do so on here...you are saying apples and oranges and he is saying apples and apples..a group of people is the same thing no matter what they are labeled...that is my interpretation at least...Correct me, Kelly, if I am misunderstanding it...
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Sun Jan 15 2:54:31 PM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
For the record, I responded with roll eyes (sarcastic) when Kelly's only response to me was:

Kelly wrote:
Howdy, Kelly said this thread isn't about the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.


That is not what I said. I said it didn't start out that way, thus I didn't name the thread the way you'd like it to be. Are you just another conservative who can't read?

Captain Edit added the response to my question about his motive for this thread afterwards.

I wish Rick K. was still around to see Kelly accuse me being "just another conservative who can't read." laughing out loud

Kelly, I'm sorry that you can't wrap your simple head around the fact that someone can like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (a "union") and not like the AFL-CIO (also a "union"). Your assertion that you can't like or hate one without liking or hating the other is... bizarre.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator Kelly  Posted: Mon Jan 16 10:06:50 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - MT
David:

My apologies. You are correct that I made a couple of assumptions. You see, I've been without my bipolar medication for the last couple of weeks. Even though I've been taking the same thing for years, each January 1, the doctor has to contact the insurance and fenagle a deal so I can get my medication. Of course each and every year, there is a major SNAFU and I get to go without. This wouldn't happen with single-payer healthcare, but that is another thread.

Regards.
 Subject: RE: Unions
Author: Donator David Schott  Posted: Mon Jan 16 10:42:01 AM MST (UTC-7) 2012 From: - WA
Thanks, Kelly. "Korky" can get under my skin too with his ultra-conservative views, but I didn't think you were being fair with this post.

- Dave
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